Saturday, April 30, 2011

English Class, Part II

*NOTE: This post is on a very sensitive subject, same as the previous post, and also brings in more of a religious aspect. I do not wish or mean to offend any with what I may say. But if you feel up to reading, I would really appreciate your thoughts.

Alright. I would not be writing another post on this same topic if it weren't for my teacher bringing up another point in class that really left me thinking. It was strong enough to uproot my previous standing. Not throw it out, but uproot it and take a look at the reasons why I believe the way I do. 

In the beginning of class, the discussion topic hadn't changed. We were still arguing the same idea: People shouldn't call abortion murder. There were a few people in my class getting upset and rather heated about the debate. I sat quietly and observed. That's just what I do. Unless I have a solid, strong opinion that I know will never be swayed and I am confident that I have backing to prove my point, then I sit quietly, absorb what's being said, and think it all through. 

When it came down to the last twenty minutes of class, my professor put his hands up and said, "Now class, I am going to make my very last point. And of course, I save my strongest point for last." This perked my interest, because thus far in the class I had not been convinced to not call abortion murder. My professor continued to give us this hypothetical situation:

"There are two women in their late 40's that are living together in California. They are good friends who were both single and decided to rent a house together solely for economic reasons. A pair of LDS missionaries knocks their door, and the women open themselves up to the message and take the discussions. Not too much time passes and they are presented with the challenge to be baptized. They both accepted.
"In their baptism interviews, they both were asked about any serious issues or grievances that were bothering them, that made them feel like maybe they weren't ready to be baptized. Woman #1 said, 'Yes. I was married once. I got married at the young age of 19. I was in love. Not too long after we were married I got pregnant. My husband and I were both in college, we were poor, we were scraping to get by, and so we sat down and decided to abort the baby. I cannot express to you the difficult time I have had over that decision. I feel so incredibly horrible about what I did, and I wish I could go back and undo my decision. It wasn't long after that my husband and I got a divorce. I hate the decision we made to abort our baby.'
"Woman #2, when asked about serious issues responded with this, 'You know, I got married really young. My husband and I were happy, but we were devastatingly poor. Barely making it by financially, no food on the shelves, and a dump of an apartment. So I got this idea that if I killed my husband and got the money from the insurance policy then life would be grand. So, I killed him. But I got caught and received a 60 year sentence. I was 20 years old. I served 25 years of it, and have been out on parole for four years now."

My professor stopped his story there, and the classroom was silent. He looked at us all and asked us this question: "Now, who do you think will be able to be baptized?"  
There was no hesitation in the room as people quietly said, "The first woman." My professor then asked us to consider why she would be able to be baptized but not the second woman, when they had both committed "murder" at the same time in their lives? The second woman would have to wait until her parole was over to even be able to think about the possibility of being baptized. But the first woman would be able to be baptized very soon. 

That hypothetical situation shook me. In the Church we treat the two things differently. Abortion and murder are both sinful, extremely sinful. But the woman who had aborted her baby would not undergo such rigorous obstacles on her path to baptism. So why are they treated differently? Is it because abortion is not considered as serious of a sin as murder? That's what my professor thinks. He believes that there are varying degrees of severity with abortion. An earlier one is not as severely punished as a later one, just as there are different degrees of murder. But, he made it clear that he does not think abortion should be called murder because the punishments and the repercussions of the two things are different.

I don't know what to think. I know that in my personal beliefs abortion is something that I will never consider unless put into a very rare and tragic situation. But whether or not I will continue to call it murder? ...I'm not sure. 

At the end of class, my professor asked those of us who could agree with him on the idea that abortion should not be called murder to raise our hands. My hand stayed on my desk. Simply because I don't know yet. I still have to think everything through. It will probably be a little bit longer before I can choose for sure whether to raise my hand or not.

13 comments:

  1. An interesting post. (ps i hate that you force a soundtrack upon me as i read your blog!!!) Anyway...I don't know if I would call abortion murder either. I simply don't know. But I know this: The 2nd woman killed her husband for money and greed. She intended to gain something from his death. What would the 1st woman gain by aborting the child? The 2nd woman committed murder in the 1st degree, premeditated murder. Did also the 1st? Was hatred and malice involved? Interesting questions that your teacher's discussion proses. hmmmmmmm

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  2. (Just mute your speakers then, haha) Yeah, I loved the discussion. I wish we would continue it for a while in class, but I can tell some people were getting really upset.

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  3. Going from what your teacher said, giving that baptismal interview if the person says that they have had an abortion then you would need the mission president to interview them to see if they have repented fully. In the other case if some one had murdered someone then you would need first presidency approval to have them baptized. So from taking that into account we can learn a little about the churches stance on abortion (something less grave than murder because it is forgivable).

    Also if one was to call abortion murder. And if you believed that abortion was making so that you do not have to suffer the consequences of your actions (the act of creating life) then wouldn't any contraceptives be considered murder because you are not allowing them to come into life? More things to chew on.

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  4. Dear Taylor,

    I read your previous blog as well, and hesitated commenting because I feel that as an LDS Memeber, my stance on abortion is unique.

    I will tell you outright, I don't think it's murder. This stems from the fact that I think it should be legal, and well I don't think murder should be.

    I know, it's extreme right? But here is my thought process:
    When my dad was on his mission, him and his companion had a maid (or cook I can't remember which)who lived near them, or somehow in the same building but not attached. One night they were woken up because she had tried giving herself an abortion with a hanger... in her desperation she risked her own life and almost died.
    Now, to me I think abortion is of course, awful, terrible, etc.and would never choose it for myself. But, I think it should be legal because of the countless girls who would try this and loose their lives in the process, that just makes me more sick.

    So there is a long response for you. And whatever stance you take on it, its up to you. Only you can form your own opinion.

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  5. Thank you all for your comments! I love responses.

    Mike: Wouldn't the second woman also have to wait until her parole was over to be able to petition the first presidency for approval? Or am I just making that up? Haha, it's quite possible. And as far as the contraceptives go, I don't think they're quite the same thing. Simply because an abortion is getting rid of life that has already been created. And contraceptives are making it so that life cannot be created. So to me they're different.

    Abbey: I love it. I'm so glad you commented! I'm not sure whether or not I can call it murder anymore. It's still going to take me awhile to decide, but yeah. And while some people may think your opinions are extreme, opinions are everyone's individual rights. I agree with you that it should be legal. Because what about those poor girls and women who are subject to rape, incest, abuse? And those women who would lose their lives if they tried to carry the baby full term? So I agree with you.

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  6. Hi Tay,
    It has been a very long time since I have seen you. Anyhow, my take on the abortion and murder is...Our lord and creator is the only one who has the right to hold anyone accountable for individual choices and actions.
    While I do not promote either abortion or murder...I can say that justice of mankind, one upon another does not always serve in the best interest of the innocent...keep in mind, those who perpetrate were innocent at one time in their lives as well. We as a society are full of idealistic perceptions of how a perfect world should be run. While there are parameters of decency, values and morals... is it right to impose mine on you or vice/versa? "I have no right to judge another, nor another of me" Cause and effect are so unpredictable sometimes. Intent often is not to truly harm others...it is often times just survival…yet in the heat of crisis it happens... Any two people do, not always perceive premeditation, in the same way. I learned that through my experience with the one I care not to mention...no justice served there...in society anyhow...but the fact that the ultimate loss is a connection to the unspeakable's own children could prove to be a punishment in itself. Maybe, but Not my concern.
    We as a society strive towards the American dream in such a way that getting there by any means is disturbing...Capitalism and greed are a constant. In this plight, many who have no grounding in their lives, get lost in the shadows and emerge with a desire that can be costly on so many levels. Our society neglects to understand the background of many of those struggling to survive and fit in. Many suffer from ghosts that haunt their dreams and their days as well.
    Often times when childhood occurrences are not addressed they resurface and bad things happen to good people. I do not like allowing other people to have a right to decide that what I do with my body is any of their business. I will suffer the consequences and “Our”creator will be there with me...to help me understand my wrongs, my rights, and he will allow me the chance to ask forgiveness and accept responsibility for whatever...
    The women who aborted suffered mentally, and lost her marriage Or was it the mans way of getting out of the marriage and commitment? The woman who admittedly shot her husband for money, lost many years of her life, her husband and gained no riches. The man shot the two ppl, got shot and now the student in the drive through has to live with mental replay of killing someone...everyone pays a price...
    I do believe our Creator wants’ us…mankind, to share our knowledge, but not to force it upon others.
    Respect is a two way street…and so many variables in any given circumstance…. Just saying!
    Good luck with your studies…
    ~Luv ya kid~

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  7. Wow that is an intense English class :) Since the Brethren have never said when a spirit enters the body it is hard to determine if abortion is murder or not. However we do know that abortion kills a living thing. Cells start dividing the minute an egg is fertilized, which if I remember right is when science determines something is living. With regards to the scenario your teacher gave you one women expressed extreme remorse and wished she could take back her actions. She was trying to repent of what she had done wrong in the past. The other almost seemed happy at what she had done and showed no remorse for breaking the laws of the land and eternal laws. As for our lives being our own and not judging others the scriptures say we should not judge another person. They say nothing about judging their actions. In fact we are supposed to judge whether other peoples actions are right or wrong. This is different than judging the person. And if you think your actions only effect yourself you are very wrong. Especially in something as big as abortion. Like the women in the scenario most women who go through an abortion feel sorrow and even physical pain for what they have done. This definitely affects those around you. Your teacher makes a good point, but just like it is hard to say abortion is murder it is also hard to say it isn't since we don't have a specific day during pregnancy that the spirit enters the body. Although your teacher has a good point about being able to call an abortion murder and people are right that women would perform their own abortions and create even more danger towards their own lives I am not convinced that abortions should be as legal as they are. As it is anyone can go into an abortion clinic during their first trimester, and in some states later than that, and ask for an abortion and almost no questions are asked. This is where I have issue with the laws I feel like in certain circumstances nothing else can be done for either the mother or the baby but in most situations there are so many other options but abortion is the easiest and fastest. Anyways I hope you and Derek are doing well. And have fun in that English class, it sounds like a class where you will have to think a lot about what you personally believe and defend those things that are most important to you.

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  8. So your professor has decided that murder and abortion are two different things based on the repercussions? Who decides the punishment and the severity? Is that decision not based on opinion? Therefore wouldn't your professor's opinion be based on the opinion of those who dictate punishment? Furthermore, do said opinions dictate that which is morally and/or religiously correct?

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  9. Mariah - It is an intense class! I really like my professor. He's a funny guy and also has a lot of interesting things to say.

    Fox (I'm guessing this is Luke) - our class discussion was based on views from a Latter-Day Saint perspective. Considering that I'm at BYU-Idaho it makes sense to discuss it from that view point.

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  10. So he based his conclusion off of repercussions within the church?(Yeah Luke =)

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  11. Luke,

    By approaching the students on a legal, moral and spiritual plane, the teacher allows the students to examine the way they feel, believe and think about a single thing. The fact that he approached the second half of the discussion from an L.D.S. perspective is simply because all members of the discussion had that in common and understood the level of severity he was inferring. Just like a traditional Catholic Priest would address the same topic in the frame of a "confessional", an L.D.S. person presents it in the frame of a prospective baptism. Not that it's saying that one religion is right and another is not. It is simply a way to access the senses of one's moral compass.

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  12. Basically what my sister said. :)

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  13. To adress the contraceptive issue - There are numerous different types of contraceptives, some which prevent pregnancy like the pill which is essentially a hormone to tell the body it is already pregnant. However, methods like the morning after pill are designed to destroy the lining that the fetus needs to grow, that is passed during the menstral cycle and therefore, if you subscribe to abortion being murder, is murder.

    I think you need to define the definition of what "murder" is to accuratly answer this question. If you look at Exodus where Moses is given the law, the 6th commandment is "Tho shalt not murder." The Hebrew word for "murder" is ratsach,which nearly always refers to intentional killing without cause. Now, I'm no expert but abortion I think definatly falls under "intentional killing without cause." What you're debating here becomes a question of do certain sins have more weight than others ?

    Matthew 12:31-32 (Larger context: 12:22-37)

    31 "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

    32 "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the {age} to come."

    The bottom line then becomes if one has truly repented of their sins, Christ has not only forgiven them but bore them on the cross when he died. If their is true repentance why would we judge what a person has done in their previous life when they were not filled with the holy spirit ? Doesn't make much sense.

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